Eleventh day of the hearing
Witness Tadeusz Rek, 41 years old, residing in Warsaw, occupation: deputy Minister of Justice, no relation to the parties.
Chairman: - I ask the Minister to say everything you know about this matter.
Witness: - I was in Warsaw since the beginning of the occupation. I would like to mention one episode, namely, regarding the bar. At the end of 1939 or at the beginning of 1940, I don’t remember exactly, all attorneys and applicants of the Warsaw Chamber of Advocates were summoned to the council premises and, in a sense, interrogated there. The dean, the president of the Warsaw Governorship’s justice department participated. Then there was a representative of the governorship in the commission, as I remember—Gollert, the head of the justice department. Questions were asked about work, especially anything political, and then the pre-war relations or activity in relation to the German offices or the German state. Later, after two or three months—this was in April or May 1940—again there was a summons to all attorneys, but not to the council premises, but to the governorship, and there was only one man interrogating, namely Gollert, head of the governorship justice department. The interrogation was short and all attorneys and applicants had to go through it. It would be difficult for me to say if these interrogations had any connection – although our feeling was that they did – with the later mass arrests of attorneys. Our common conviction was that indeed they did. Namely, the arrests of attorneys in Warsaw began ...
Chairman: - I am sorry, what questions were put forward at the second hearing?
Witness: - Only one question was asked. But here I have to back up a little. One of the first orders of the occupation authorities of the governorship was to debar all non-Aryan attorneys. Well, the question was: "Are you happy with the debarring of non-Aryan attorneys or not?" This was the only question, and Mr. Gollert marked some kind of sign next to each name. Nobody saw what it was. Then came the arrests.
This interrogation was probably in May, and on 12 July the first mass arrest of attorneys took place, about 70 on one day. I belonged to this group. We were closely associated with this interrogation in the governorship, and even more so with the first preliminary hearing in the Bar Council by the German commissioners. We formed the impression that the decision for the arrests came from the governorship, and that it was more a question of taking a predetermined number rather than specific individuals, although of course this was also taken into consideration, but in the end it was about the number, and such a conclusion came from the fact that when on the same day (because the arrest was early in the morning) two or three detainees were released, around midday—very old people—two or three hours later the Gestapo brought in the same number of fresh attorneys, and among them was the current Minister of Justice Świątkowski. There was an established number and that number had to be met.
None of us were interrogated, nor were we informed that we were hostages. We were taken straight to Pawiak, a few were released in their own time, the rest, after five weeks, were taken to the concentration camp in Auschwitz. As I recall, I can’t say the exact number, about fifty attorneys were deported. The transport itself was many times larger.
I don’t really need to talk about the Auschwitz camp. In any case, twelve or thirteen returned from that fifty. The rest died. The younger attorney Bielawski died first. On the fourth or fifth day after arriving at the camp. When he was deported he was completely healthy. The attorney Kostro died the next day, then Niewiarowski and the others.
Chairman: - Did you know that there was pressure from the governing bodies toward the Bar Council to debar [the list] of Jewish attorneys?
Witness: - When the occupation began, the pre-war Bar Council was headed by the dean Leon Nowodworski. Such pressure, it was widely known among us, came from the side of the Warsaw governorship. The council refused and, as a punishment, not one of its members was entered into the list of attorneys already vetted by the German governing authorities. A few of them from this group were arrested and deported to the camp.
Chairman: - Was Dean Nowodworski arrested then?
Witness: - Not then. I heard that he was arrested later.
Chairman: - Minister, everyone was then asked if they were satisfied with the debarring. Was this connected with the arrest? What was the opinion among your colleagues who were arrested and deported to Auschwitz? Did you know amongst yourselves what answer people gave? The answer, of course, was negative.
Witness: - We formed the impression that this arrest and deportation was in a certain way related to this.
Prosecutor Sawicki: - When they were arrested, was it said that the Bar Council opposed the debarring of certain attorneys?
Witness: - As I mentioned, none of us had been interrogated, except as regards personal information.
Prosecutor Sawicki: - Did you get any information in any way, particularly those who remained free, that this arrest was a form of repression?
Witness: - According to the news that reached us, there were two reasons for this arrest: One, on account of the answer given to Gollert, and the second, on account of the pre-war attitude to Hitlerism.
Chairman: - Does the defense have any questions? No. Thank you, Minister. I now summon Professor Arnold.