On 15 December 1992 in Kraków Capt. Jacek Krupa, prosecutor for the Provincial General Prosecutor’s Office in Kraków delegated to the Main Commission for the Investigation of Crimes Against the Polish Nation – the Institute of National Remembrance in Kraków, District Commission for the Investigation of Crimes Against the Polish Nation in Kraków, proceeding in accordance with the provisions of Article 2 of the Act of 6 April 1984 with subsequent amendments (Journal of Laws from 1991, No. 45, item 195) and Article 129 of the Code of Criminal Procedure, reporting personally, interviewed the person named below as a witness. Having been advised of the criminal liability for making false statements, the witness confirmed with her own signature that she had been informed of this liability (Article 172 of the Code of Criminal Procedure). Having been advised of her right to remain silent (Article 166, paragraph 1 of the Code of Criminal Procedure), the witness testified as follows:
| Name and surname | Helena Karnasiewicz, née Radzymińska |
| Parents’ names | Bolesław and Leokadia, née Sapierzyńska |
| Date and place of birth | 20 March 1928, Gajówka, Stoczek Węgrowski commune, Węgrów district |
| Place of residence | Kraków, Łąkowa Street 14, apt. 35 |
| Occupation | retired since 1985 |
| Education | 7 years of elementary school |
| Criminal record for perjury | none |
| Relationship to the parties | none |
Identity determined on the basis of identity card, series ZL, No. 3126938, issued [by] the District Citizens’ Militia Headquarters [in] Kraków on 20 September 1966.
I have understood the instructions regarding criminal liability for making false statements. To the questions put to me I reply the following: I was born on 20 March 1928 in the township of Gajówka, Stoczek Węgrowski commune, Węgrów district, Warsaw voivodeship, in the family of Bolesław and Leokadia Radzymiński. I had three siblings: two brothers – Mieczysław [b. in] 1924, Edmund [b. in] 1937, and sister Danuta [b. in] 1932. Out of my siblings only my brother Mieczysław is still alive. He lives in Gdańsk, Dworcowa Street; I don’t recall the house number, but it is located in the building of the Main Railway Station in Gdańsk. My brother was a train dispatcher for years at this railway station and was granted an apartment there.
Between 1941 and 1944 my family and I lived in the township of Gajówka. This township – more precisely, a settlement – was made up of five [to] seven houses. There was no distinct administrative border, like a road sign, between Stoczek Węgrowski and Gajówka. However, these five or seven houses were commonly known as “Gajówka”. The distance from Gajówka to the town square in Stoczek was approximately three kilometers. To the question [put to me] [I reply:] my entire family – my parents, myself and my siblings – survived the war. My mom and dad died in 1945, my mother in May and my father sometime in autumn. I do not want to testify about this, it’s a personal matter.
As far as my siblings are concerned, as I testified above, currently only my brother Mieczysław is alive.
I know nothing about the Jews sheltered by the Wojtkowski family. The Wojtkowskis lived near us – two kilometers away in the village of Stoczek Węgrowski. In fact, there was the town of Stoczek Węgrowski with a market square, further a roadside village of the same name, and finally our Gajówka.
About the sheltering of Jews, I testify as follows. The town of Stoczek Węgrowski was mostly populated by Jews. In 1942, if I recall correctly, they began to organize a ghetto there, concentrating residents in a part of the town. Deportations to Treblinka commenced, at least that’s what was then said. To protect themselves, Jews would spend their nights in villages, as the deportations usually took place between 3:00 and 5:00 a.m. For several months, from spring 1942 to August 1942, several Jewish families would sleep every day in our barn, including the family of Estera and Maier Olszak, a childless married couple, Estera’s brother Icek, and Hanka with her mother – their last names I do not know. Hanka was 20 years old at that time. This went on until August, when the Germans organized a roundup of Jews in Stoczek. It was said that only the more prominent members of the Jewish Council were being deported to Treblinka, while others were shot in the local forests. Of course, this operation began at dawn. Those spending the night with us escaped to the nearby forest. From then on Jews would only visit us at night to cook meals. They were the Olszaks I mentioned, Hanka with her mother and a married couple with two little boys, who I remember as a three and a five-year-old. I don’t know their names, it might have been Ele Tedełban with family. I only know that this family is now in Uruguay. It was not an option for Jews to hide at our home [or] buildings, because we were afraid of denunciation by other Poles. That’s no joke. We were denounced by my father’s cousin. Of course there was no official confirmation of this, but it was clear from the behavior of the Germans conducting the search at our house. They knew perfectly well where certain items were placed, like the platinum cutlery owned by the Olszaks. The first German to enter our house went straight to the cabinet and pulled out the drawer where the cutlery was. The same thing happened with the items which we stored in the garden shack to grab in case of a house fire. The Germans took away those bags claiming that it was Jewish property. Had they discovered any trace of the presence of Jews or aiding them, we would’ve been dead. This search was conducted by the Germans in the summer of 1943, the month I don’t remember. They searched the entire farmstead very thoroughly, especially the house and barn. They confiscated the cutlery I mentioned and the clothing stored in the shack. To the question [put to me] [I reply:] I no longer recall the last name of my father’s cousin who most likely reported on us. I suppose he has since passed away. If he was still alive, he would’ve been over 80 years old. He lived in the village of Stoczek Węgrowski.
We aided the Jews by enabling them to cook meals. They cooked at night, using foodstuffs gathered in the fields or provided by us, when they had none of their own. The nine of them would come over until the entry of the Soviet Army in August 1944, so for two full years. I’d like to add that in the winter they would come one by one to pick up produce, because at the time they were cooking in their shelters in the forest, and also tried to avoid leaving footprints in the snow. Our farm was [located] near the forest, which was just beyond the fence. I will [also] describe how their time in hiding came to an end. For a period of time in July and August 1944 the Jews who were hiding in the forest weren’t showing up and we didn’t know what was going on with them. One day in August 1944 I went to the forest to pick mushrooms; this was after the entry of the Soviet troops. On my way home, I met a woman in the forest. It was Estera, sent by those in hiding to find out what’s going on. She learned from me that the Germans had left. That day all those hiding in the forest came to our house. Eight were left, because [in] the meantime Hanka’s mother died. So there were Estera [and] Maier Olszak, Estera’s brother Icek, Hanka, and the married couple with two boys. They stayed with us until the winter of 1944, as they had nowhere to return to. Their homes in Stoczek were taken over by Poles [who] had no intention of moving out. In winter 1944, sometime in early December, they moved to Ostrów Mazowiecka. From there the Olszaks with Icek and Hanka left for Israel in 1947 and the married couple with two children for Uruguay, I don’t know when. I don’t remember the last name of the family who emigrated to Uruguay or the first names of its members.
I am now in correspondence with Haszka, [who] married a Hungarian; I don’t remember his last name, I have it noted down at home. If necessary for the investigation I can supply it; as of now I cannot recall [it]. I maintain correspondence with Hanka. In Israel she married Icek, Estera’s brother, and now uses the last name Olszak. They live in the city of Mizgaw-dow in Israel. I would like to clarify [that] Icek has already passed away, he died in 1987. I don’t correspond with the family who left for Uruguay. I know, however, that they write to my brother who lives in Gdańsk and whose address I provided above.
I would like to add to my testimony. Haszka, whom I mentioned above, was a Jewish girl who managed to escape during the liquidation of the ghetto in Stoczek. She was the only one in her family to reach our buildings on the day of the ghetto’s liquidation. She was 10 or 11 years old at the time and of very short stature. She was with us for about a month and tended to the farm birds. Later on, when rumors started in the village about us sheltering Jews, my father told her to escape to the forest. She did, and I still don’t know how she managed to survive all these years, even though two years ago, during her trip from Israel, she visited me in Kraków in the company of my brother. She gave me hers and Hanka’s addresses. Since then, that is since 1990, we write to each other.
I testified that we were afraid of being reported on for sheltering or aiding Jews. The story of the Postek family clearly illustrates the scale of danger. They sheltered 15 Jews from Stoczek in the cellar of a burnt-down house. They were denounced [and] the Germans shot the Jews on the spot. The family was dealt with in the following manner: the father of the family and two of his sons were deported by the Germans and never seen again. The mother was either taken or shot. Only two daughters managed to escape and survived. The Postek buildings stood near the school in the town of Stoczek Węgrowski. I was not close with the family and only knew their last name.
To the question [put to me] [I reply:] I did not know where the Jewish hideouts in the forest were located. I’ve never been to one, and so I cannot sketch a layout. I reiterate [that] there was no hideout on our farmstead. I know nothing about sheltering Jewish escapees from Treblinka. That is the extent of my knowledge in this case. At this point the report was concluded and signed upon being read out and confirmed as consistent with the testimony.
Upon reading the report I would like to add that I only received one summons to testify and it’s for today. I live at the address Kraków, Łąkowa Street 14, apt. 35 since 1966. It is officially noted that on pages 4–5 of the witness’ identity document the following entry was found: “registered on 19 October 1966 as a permanent resident at Kraków, Łąkowa Street 14, apt. 35, signature illegible, round seal reads: The President of the District National Council, Population Register Department Grzegórzki, Kraków 1.”
At this the report was concluded, read out and signed as consistent with the testimony.
Corrections and supplements: On page two, line 27 from the bottom of the text the word “Hanka” was crossed out and replaced with “Haszka”. On the reverse of page two, line 4 from the bottom of the text, “4” and “i” were crossed out.